Season 2, Episode 5: Greg Roberts - An insight in to the World of Luxury Retirement Living & Disibility

Welcome to Season 2, Episode 5 of The Property Now Podcast 

In this episode, we delve into the intricate world of financial planning and disability with our esteemed guest, Greg Roberts. 

In this episode, Greg shares his valuable insights on the below range of fascinating topics to enjoy: 
- His involvement in the financial planning and disability royal commissions. 

- He unveils his innovative model for retirement planning that promises luxury living without compromise. 

- We also discuss the current trends and observations in disability, shedding light on how they impact the property market. 

Join us as we explore these critical topics with Greg, whose expertise and experience offer a fresh perspective on creating a secure and opulent future. 

Tune in to gain a wealth of knowledge that could redefine your approach to retirement and property investment.

Transcript

Speaker 1:                       00:00                  Welcome to the Property Now Podcast, where we talk all things property, investment, and new homes with your host Matt eol. 

Speaker 2:                       00:09                  Yes, there's bad debt. Yes, there's good debt. The good debt is not bad. It will never send you broke. Ever rich people rely on debt to expand because without debt it's pretty hard to expand. It's almost impossible. 

Speaker 1:                       00:20                  If you want to learn more about what's happening in the market and how to benefit from property investment, then go no further. We dig deep as to why our sector is a key to building financial security and safety for your family. Never before has it been more important to understand the playing field than now. 

Speaker 2:                       00:39                  And I would say this, this is probably going to raise some eyebrows with some people, but your family home is not an asset. It's a liability. It's taking money out of your pocket from a cashflow position. 

Speaker 1:                       00:49                  So let's get on with the show. Happy listening and we'll see you on the other side. 

Speaker 2:                       00:54                  Hello, hello, and welcome to the Property in our podcast. I'm your host, Matt Al, and as always, or most of the time today, we have another very special guest with us, Mr. Greg Roberts. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you, Matt. I feel a little bit in learning more about Greg. I feel a little bit inspired by this man's experience. He's been and done a few things, which I'll let him share a little bit more background on in a second. But we've brought Greg on today who's a close friend of Bob Hand, who's one of the initiators of this programme. And Greg has a wealth of experience in the financial management environment and also now more into the retirement space and disability. So very relevant to what we do and I'm very excited to have you on, mate. Thank you, 

Speaker 3:                       01:47                  Matt. 

Speaker 2:                       01:48                  You're welcome. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself so that they can get an understanding as to your experience. Substantial. 

Speaker 3:                       01:59                  Yeah, thanks, Matt. I've been in financial services for about 36 years now. Have worked up until about 12 years ago in the country, Victorian Shepherd in Golden Valley. I've worked with various people, worked with NAB for a number of years, then got my own financial services licences. I thought that that suited me better and it worked out much better for me and for my clients. Over the course of the journey, I've developed lots of interests and skills and education knowledge in the retirement age, disability, and care sectors because, and I know it sounds corny, but we're trying to deliver a win-win situation for our clients where they can get both qualitative and quantitative betterment in what they do. And it's a complex area. So aged care, retirement living, where we've written a postgraduate course in that it's an A DCE point course for accountants, lawyers, planners, and we've got about 400 planners nationally who've done that course. And they handle well over a thousand sales or consultations a year for ongoing residence into retirement living space, primarily in New South Wales. Yeah, 

Speaker 2:                       03:14                  No, that's great mate. Obviously a lot of experience there. 36 years is a lifetime for a lot of people. 

Speaker 3:                       03:21                  Well, Matt, some people have 36 years experience and some people have one your experience 36 times. Yeah, 

Speaker 2:                       03:26                  Well that's true. 

Speaker 3:                       03:27                  Hopefully I'm the first one. 

Speaker 2:                       03:29                  Well, I'm proud of that with myself too. I think sticking to something is so valuable because you just pick up, well, we were talking before the show started about study and master's degrees in these things, and it's like they're great, but the learning is on the job and in the experience when you're on the field doing it. 

Speaker 3:                       03:48                  And quite often it's not a linearal thing and it changes. And I was retired now, but I was a self-managed super specialist for many years and we had to do annual accreditation for it. And the story was that they kept the questions the same. They just kept changing the answers because it evolved every year. So you had to keep up with the different changes. 

Speaker 2:                       04:13                  No, very good mate. So why don't you tell us a little bit, I understand that you're working on some very exciting projects at the moment that's within the retirement space. Yes, it is. Yes. There's a few. We can't exactly share what it is. 

Speaker 3:                       04:29                  I've got to be Sergeant Schultz a bit with it. Yes. But certainly in big picture term, I'd love to share some of the directions that we've found to be really important and all of our stakeholders in this new ventures are on board with it. So as I was saying, we are building on what we've been doing for the last 21, 22 years since we started the Aged Care and Retirement Living Specialist advisory services. But we can give quality of benefits, which is home care, personal care, clinical care, just optimising and really looking after people in that non-financial sense as well as getting financial betterment for residents as well too. So a bit of it, or a fair bit of it is better use of investment superannuation funding structures, Centrelink Care packages, NIS, all of SEA sort of built that sort of stuff. So it's sort of built on that. I mentioned that my youngest daughter was born with very severe disability, and over the course of time, I've got a real strong interest in that. I work with Gayden's Law Firm in early two thousands. We got a tax ruling for disabled people that is not very well known, but is available for people with disability circumvent the normal superannuation concession or non-concessional cap limits. So yeah, we give good structural advice for people. 

Speaker 2:                       05:56                  And so some of these, what do you call it, a resort or what? 

Speaker 3:                       06:00                  Yeah, it sounds grand, doesn't it? But we are setting up with the fishing of a resort, but a full care resort. We're doing a supported living structure with a very different fee structure to anybody else in Australia. And again, being corny, primary duty of care is to the residents. Every resident gets a tailored financial plan and gets betterment on everything they do, and we make good money at it. Whatever they do, we will be profitable as well too. So nobody takes a haircut with our model, Matt. Yeah, 

Speaker 2:                       06:32                  It's hard to provide good services without making money. It's an important part of it. 

Speaker 3:                       06:37                  I've been involved in the advice area, particularly for aged care now for a few years, and I can't say the names of the enterprises, but one community group and one church group who I gave advice to seven or eight years ago were big churches. One big church were 28 million in debt, and they were securing the bonds. REI cares. They used residential aged care. They used to have the accommodation bonds. They're now called rads refundable accommodation deposits or the DAP equivalent. But they were holding, they mortgaged the bonds they were holding to offset the debt that they have with the bank. They're just some horror stories that I've seen. So we don't do that way. We're absolutely squeaky clean. 

Speaker 2:                       07:18                  And look, I don't think it's corny at all. I think at the end of the day, we're all trying to, if you're running a business or you're providing a service, you're trying to deliver the best proposition to people possible and talking about that's absolutely warranted. We need to talk 

Speaker 3:                       07:33                  About them. And in the retirement space, the numbers are at the moment about one person 16 in the over 65 cohort choose to live in retirement living. Five years ago it was 5.7%. In the next few years, it's estimated by EY, B-D-O-P-W-C that the numbers are going to go to 7.5%. So because of the demographic rising, it means it's going to go from 180,000 a few years ago to 495,000 people in retirement living in the next few years. 

Speaker 2:                       08:05                  Well, 1% increase is a considerable increase because 

Speaker 3:                       08:08                  It's compounded too. 

Speaker 2:                       08:10                  And we talk about, well, I like to talk about, because we talk about, well, we deal with younger people predominantly, but understanding the different changes in the landscape of people retiring. So things like we're living longer. We don't have as many workers compared to the amount of people that are retiring. We've got a heavily quickly growing or ageing population, one of the fastest in the world is my understanding. So these kind of things are so important, and I'm fascinated by it because the younger generations need to get their head around firstly what's happening in that space and what they can do when they get to a point when they do retire. 

Speaker 3:                       08:50                  Exactly. Right. And even for their moms and dads or their grandparents as well too. It's a circle of life sort of spin around. So if I can just share with you a bit of what we do in terms of the agenda of what we do for all of our Retire Living advisors, specialist advisors, that we go through detailed data collection and then we give a written statement advice for every person going into Retire Living. So we analyse their income needs, their tax situation, their wealth retention or wealth creation needs, look at their risk management because we get excellent estate planning. We lower their risks. We do wills, powers of attorney binding nominations, non-binding, advanced care directives, all that. We work for the people as well too nationally of the over 65 cohort of five in eight people get at least a part pension, even in some of the really wealthy suburbs, they're on the classic asset rich income, poor people, Matt. So we optimise those financial benefits for people through SendLink. I've personally got no problem with that. These are people who have worked hard paid tax, orly working lives, and if we can optimise legally their situation, absolutely we'll do that because that then helps fund the cost of care for them into the future. Is there a couple? Okay. I mentioned disability in retirement 

Speaker 2:                       10:13                  Living. Oh, please. I mean, we deal quite closely within the 

Speaker 3:                       10:16                  Disability space. I'm aware that too. Yeah, you and Bob. So 

Speaker 2:                       10:18                  We can go wherever you want with this conversation. 

Speaker 3:                       10:21                  So in terms of disability, so I've been involved with the Disability Royal Commission as well as the Aged Care Royal Commission in terms of 

Speaker 2:                       10:31                  Fascinating, yeah. 

Speaker 3:                       10:31                  Submissions and things there. So the disability cohort is really quite enormous. Nationally, there's 230,000 people every year get some form of disability. That's the amount paid that it's 

Speaker 2:                       10:45                  Amazing to me. That blows me away. And I'm aware of these kinds of stats because we work within it, but not many people are. No, 

Speaker 3:                       10:52                  No. So out of that, through workers' comp, civil claims, unsafe workplace insurances, super, all of that sort of stuff, the amount paid to these people is about 105 billion with a B billion dollars new money every year paid to these newly disabled people. Now, some of them have got situations where they're smaller payments, but there's around 10% get payments in excess of $2 million and can't work again. And our job is to create solutions as you are doing with your work, Matt, great services and solutions for people. We help get a model where they get care through you, a good place, safe place to live and be cared for. We can provide home care, personal care, clinical care for them with a financial model where they're not eating into their money, but making it grow, which we've got many hundreds, thousands of cases where we've done that. So it's really important. 

Speaker 2:                       11:49                  One of the things that stood out for me when you were sharing a bit more about your model was the wealth creation component. It blows me away as to the lack of general knowledge when it comes to building wealth. I mean, we're trying to help people, a clear path to wealth is what we're trying to help them with through property. But the general lack of knowledge as to what to do and how to do it and how it works, especially when it comes to things like superannuation, retirement, those kinds of things. Or how do we do this? Well, 

Speaker 3:                       12:23                  Super is a great point. Matt and I mentioned the younger disabled, so 17%, one in six basically of the under 65 workforce suffer a disability. There's a government scale on impairment, and you are severely disabled if the impairment's greater than 20%, either physically, psychologically, or intellectually. So there's 17% of the workforce of the under 60 fives have that measurement at the moment. Once you press over into 60 fives, the numbers are 51%. So half the people start retirement, either start with or require a disability, psychological, physically intellectual, and we've got to be able to look after those things. We, in our care operations, through what we're doing at the new resorts that we're going to be doing, are going to be doing up to level three care. Once they either get faecal or urinary incontinence or dementia or oxygen therapy, they're best to go into full residential aged care. But up until then, we can deliver care for them. 

Speaker 2:                       13:29                  That's great. I mean, people need peace of mind and I think it's challenging when they have to go to one place for that and then one place for that. And then it's okay if that's all under the umbrella and the guided from one or two providers, but the support of that under the one roof is a big thing. 

Speaker 3:                       13:48                  Not that they have to, it's all choice as consumer directive care means that they've got the choice who they want to do so who they want to look after them. We're happy to say, this is what we do, and if they choose us, hooray, if not great, they're getting, as long as they get the care, it doesn't matter who they get it from. So in terms of our model, that's good. 

Speaker 2:                       14:07                  Yeah, no, that's fantastic. Yeah. Disabilities is something that I've sort of started to build quite a passion and a genuine interest in because some of those numbers that you share, it's, it just blows your mind to think that so many people are being affected now. 

Speaker 3:                       14:23                  Well, there are clever, well-educated advisors, either accountants, lawyers or planners. And out of the 400 or so who've done my post-grad course, it's roughly a third of each. Accountants and lawyers and planners, about a third each. So it's not all financial planners. And I work with law firm in Sydney back in 2000 1, 2, 3. We end up achieving a solution for disabled people where they could outside the normal concessional and non-concessional cap limits, put unlimited money up to the pension threshold into super tax free. We was actually initiated by Legacy in New South Wales who retained us for three years to get, because they had in North Sydney, I think it's 20,000 widow, 8,000 adult intellectually handicapped children. Man, it was assault from Vietnam War. Ancient origin affected the kids and they had intellectual disabilities is really quite a snapshot. So that was really excellent work to do. That's tax ruling. 2 92 dash 95 I think is the CIS Act reference to it's still in place and very, very, very few people do it. Most financial planners or bankers will say, and I just pop your money here, you lose your pension, you pay tax, you've got real expensive care fees. All of the things you shouldn't do. But we create a tailored plan for those people to come up with the best result for 'em. So their income tax, wealth risk, estate planning, SendLink and fee minimization are optimised for every person. 

Speaker 2:                       15:56                  It really stands out to me how important the advisor's responsibility is because people, you're talking a language that a lot of people, unfortunately, yes. 

Speaker 3:                       16:05                  You've 

Speaker 2:                       16:05                  Got to deliver it in a way that it's understandable in layman's terms. 

Speaker 3:                       16:08                  Sure. We educate the people, we provide them with calculators and modellers on how to do it, but it's not conflicted. They don't have to do what we say. We give them the information, they will give the advice. So we're at arm's length in all of those relations and advices. So there was legislation, financial services a few years ago called fofa, future Financial Advice, where we wouldn't but couldn't pay them a commission. They get a fee for it, and that's all it is. And they do a statement advice, and if the residents or the clients choose, they can get an annual review because things change. The disorders can get worse. The assessments, the ACAT assessments can say, well, you've gone from a level one or two or two to a three. We keep them updated and just meet the needs of the residents and the clients. 

Speaker 2:                       16:58                  I'm fascinated to hear that you've worked on a couple of royal commissions. I dunno whether you can talk about any of it or whether you 

Speaker 3:                       17:05                  Can't a bit I can. I think my involvement was primarily in the Aged Care Royal Commission. And again, strongly this Disability Royal Commission made a number of submissions there for them because we had witnessed firsthand and had a number of court challenges where financial services companies and trustee companies have done what I believe is absolutely the wrong thing. They've overcharged, given I say the word shit, they give shit advice to people. 

Speaker 2:                       17:34                  Shit's fine on this show. You can run with the word shit. That's not a problem. Okay, 

Speaker 3:                       17:37                  Thank you. So they've given shit results to people. So one of the trustee companies in particular, so let's say someone's got a million dollars that they get, they'll say, I'll look after that for you. Let's say the court says, you've got to go to this trustee company. They'll take six and a half percent upfront as a fee, plus five and half percent of the income, plus 350 bucks an hour, and give them shit advices where they lose their pension. 

Speaker 2:                       18:00                  Thought three 50 an hour is a pretty good place to start, let alone taking 65 grand than million straight up front. 

Speaker 3:                       18:06                  Yeah, that's right. So these people, and we successfully got all, I think we have eight challenges that went through either VCAT or a T where we've had wins against this particular trust company and the clients and their families just go, oh, thank God for that. They didn't understand it. 

Speaker 2:                       18:27                  Well, it's so hard for people to make, especially in today's world, with cost of living and interest rates and all these kinds of things. We talk about it all the time, but when you're then going to people to help you make more money and the opposite is occurring, 

Speaker 3:                       18:44                  That's 

Speaker 2:                       18:45                  A disaster. 

Speaker 3:                       18:45                  Yeah. It's like the old stockbrokers from 20 years ago will invest all your money until it's all gone. I mean, we're making it grow. And I'm thinking now of the son of a federal politician who is one of my first clients. I was referred through the New South Wales Disability team, government team, and they referred me to this politician's son who's now five times more wealth than he got, and living very well. Great care. And 

Speaker 2:                       19:15                  That's a currency in itself. I mean, obviously you need to charge for your services and whatnot, 

Speaker 3:                       19:20                  But a fair pay 

Speaker 2:                       19:21                  When you see I've shared it a lot with property clients over the years, and that's one of the beauties of being in it a long time too, because you see the outcomes. It's not just, oh, great, there you go, see you later. But you see the outcomes and people look back on conversations and go, oh, seems like nothing now. We were so nervous and so terrified at the time, but now we're so happy that we've made decisions and we've done certain things. 

Speaker 3:                       19:45                  It is, and yes, so what we try and do, people have either got all of them like you trust you, respect you, and if they do all of that, then yes, they'll usually decide. 

Speaker 2:                       19:55                  It's then on you to do the right thing. Exactly 

Speaker 3:                       19:58                  Right. And to have defined services and you say, we're going to do this and this and this for you, that's going to cost you $300, whatever it is. And they say, fine, I'll do that sign. There's no hidden commissions or rebates or kickbacks or platform fees or whatever. So 

Speaker 2:                       20:13                  No, that's good. I'm intrigued to understand a little bit more about the disability, not necessarily the Royal Commission, unless you've got anything to share with it, but I 

Speaker 3:                       20:24                  Think I've shared enough of anything. 

Speaker 2:                       20:25                  No, it's fine. I'll say 

Speaker 3:                       20:26                  Who it's 

Speaker 2:                       20:27                  No, no, no, it's totally fine. But fascinating numbers around the amount of disability that's coming into play. We have people that invest into building SDA homes and these kind of things. However, it's part of our responsibility and one of the biggest responsibilities I feel that we have is understanding where these homes are needed, what types of designs are needed, what are we providing by way of support around that investment 

Speaker 3:                       20:57Accommodation for Kiers, all of that sort of stuff. Yeah, it's 

Speaker 2:                       20:59                  Critical. And there's so much to it, which I like because it means competitors struggle to enter the space. 

Speaker 3:                       21:09                  Yeah, sure. We are proposing with the retirement villages that we'll be starting to do them to SDA standard. As I said, we know that half the people have a disability. We're going to build wider door frames, turning circles for wheelchairs, cutoff island benches. Now we connected from all that sort of stuff. 

Speaker 2:                       21:32                  And it's, from what I've heard, and it's amazing how many people that we speak to who actually work in the space, such a big space and such a big part of what we do, but the difference that it makes to the people living within those homes is one of the most amazing things. 

Speaker 3:                       21:48                  Well, we have, in my last 20 odd years, 20 plus years that I've been working in the space, I've given advices to people who think down on Mornington Peninsula, very large village there, I've been giving advice for, and they've had some younger disabled people, and the blend of younger disableds with older residents in the village, it's just so complimentary. They both get benefit from it. It makes it a much, much stronger community. 

Speaker 2:                       22:15                  I actually grew up, I started playing lawn bowls at quite a young age, so being immersed into environments of older people, I just felt so comfortable within that at a very young age. And I've always connected with older people now, so I'm not surprised by that because I think younger people, like maybe the calmness and wisdom of older people they've been and done gone 

Speaker 3:                       22:38                  Through. There's a wisdom about it, which we've got to celebrate. 

Speaker 2:                       22:42                  No, that's exciting. Yeah, I think that's great for people as well, and to have a community as well, especially if they've gone through an event or something's happened and there's a disability that's come from that most of 

Speaker 3:                       22:53                  Are triggered. Yeah, that's right. 

Speaker 2:                       22:55                  Yeah, very good. 

Speaker 3:                       22:56                  So can sometimes the granting of the care packages takes a while as you're aware, but they're backdated to when it applies. So we just do the best we can. 

Speaker 2:                       23:07                  So one of the things that we, and we're the same, I mean, we're not responsible for getting the funding. Obviously we connect all of the services in that respect. But one of our biggest messages to people that invest in this space is, Hey, look, you just need to understand there's more moving parts. It can quite often take longer to get it started. However, it's very much quite often the scenario where people, once they've got their funding and they move in, there're as close to a tenant for life as possible. Obviously they might need to move on due to health reasons. 

Speaker 3:                       23:41                  And that's where it's a conflict. From the developer point of view, that's where it's a bit more complex because in a normal time village, the average turnover is every nine, 10 years. But with younger Disableds, it lengthens that period, and therefore your cashflow is much bumpier. It's much longer. You still pick up gain on the units, but your measurement fees are usually a bit less. So you've got to have other ways of funding it so that you are not running at a loss, but you're still giving service. So that's the balancing act you've got to do. 

Speaker 2:                       24:11                  Yeah. Talk to me about if you can, I actually used to work in the over fifties department, for example, over 50 communities. 

Speaker 3:                       24:20                  Land lease. 

Speaker 2:                       24:22                  Yeah, exactly. Yep. Correct. Under the Caravan Act. It's been quite a while now, so I'm not full bottle on it anymore. But 

Speaker 3:                       24:31                  In Victoria, it's currently Residential Tendencies Act, chapter four of that legislation. So it's different to the Retirement Living Act. Are you interested in services or the funding models or 

Speaker 2:                       24:43                  I think anything that would add value for people just trying to get their head around the space. I mean, we have some older listeners as well that work with us, and 

Speaker 3:                       24:52                  I think it's an interesting space. I think they can be an option for some of the people. And again, without being patronising or pigeonholing, they're usually for people with a bit less money. The land lease community's usually good for people who've got combined home equity and financial assets in that seven, 800,000 mark. The people over that are generally better in a retirement living community because they get better services and more amenities and better care. I'm thinking the main land lease community provider in Victoria who was on the A, B, C last Monday, they've got a different model. So it's basically in some terms, a glorified caravan park, really accountable home concept where people buy the unit and they plunk it on the site and they pay rent. Over the last few years, rents have increased in that model from about six and a half thousand dollars a year to roughly a thousand a month now $12,000 a year. So they become much more expensive. The models usually don't pass on any capital gain on the units the people have, the residents have potential to take the unit with them. It is a cattle park. I've only heard of one that's ever done it. 

Speaker 2:                       26:06                  Yeah. I never came across that happening. 

Speaker 3:                       26:08                  Yeah, I've only heard of one, but what 

Speaker 2:                       26:10                  Do they get the crane in? 

Speaker 3:                       26:12                  And they've got to be designed and constructed in a way that within 24 hours, it can be lift up on a crane and put onto a trailer and taken away. That's part of the legislation for that village. So generally they work off 20% deferred pension fee, and the operator of the village takes all of the capital gains. So in simple terms, assuming that they're there for, say, 10 years at 5% capital growth in simple terms of 500,000 unit has grown to $800,000. The people when they leave get 80% of the 500 back, the initial. So they get 400 back. The developer gets the other hundred plus they get the 300 in the capital gain. So I think basically the services break even, and then that's the difference. You can make a profit in a land lease community, but you can't make a profit in a loan lease or retirement village community. 

Speaker 3:                       27:09                  It's more like a body corporate where it just runs at the cost. You can't make a profit off that part of it. But yeah, so retirement villages charge, excuse me, most will charge a deferred management fee, and most will take all of the capital gain again. But you've got to go in with your eyes open and just do the financial. And again, without being too corny, we are modelling at the moment for average people and high wealth people where they can actually get financial betterment compared to some operators of 80 to a hundred thousand dollars a year. Betterment our model compared to anybody else's model. So I know it sounds Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, Greg. But we are getting those results. No, I 

Speaker 2:                       27:55                  Mean if you can demonstrate it and you can deliver upon that, then 

Speaker 3:                       27:59                  Well, we've had to sign off from global accounting firms on the model. So yeah, it stacks up unreal. 

Speaker 2:                       28:06                  I'm sure there's some people listening here that will look forward to hearing and seeing what you do release. We can't talk about it too much, but 

Speaker 3:                       28:12                  No, watch this space. Watch 

Speaker 2:                       28:14                  This space. I like it. Build a tension a little bit. 

Speaker 3:                       28:17                  Think that that's 

Speaker 2:                       28:18                  Good. Yeah, exactly. It's interesting with the super, and when you're saying people with more money, we have a bit of visibility around what the stats sit out as a general and the median superannuation balance for everyday Australians hitting the age of 60 and 70 is not overly impressive, unfortunately. And people are thinking, great, we've got our super, we've got pensions and these kind of things, but it's changing. And then we're talking about living a lot longer and cost of living being so much higher cost 

Speaker 3:                       28:52                  Of care 

Speaker 2:                       28:55                  And hearing disability stats as well. Obviously that brings in extra costs. 

Speaker 3:                       28:59                  Yes. And again, being a bit morbid, the mortality stats for the first time ever, Australia's because of covid and mortality stats have dropped by one year. In the last ones that came out a few months ago, our average mortality has actually fallen for the first time since the early 19 hundreds. Wow. That's incredible. 

Speaker 2:                       29:21                  But they're forecasting for that to change upwards again. 

Speaker 3:                       29:24                  Yes, they are. It's just a blip on the radar because of covid. But covid is still in epidemic proportions. There's more people died in the last month of covid than they died in the heat of it all in 2021. So it's still a very serious thing, and that's why you've got to have good care and look after yourself and get looked 

Speaker 2:                       29:44                  After. And that's why we're so invested in this space too. Obviously we need to have a commercial interest in what's happening also. And this space, it's not going to decline. It's getting bigger and they need more support, and we need more affordable housing as well, which is another space we operate within. And the rooming house approach is one that I feel we really need, especially in the short term. I don't think it's going to change anytime soon, but we're not building enough homes to keep up with the amount of people A, that are moving here and that are increasing naturally through births and whatnot. And the way we live is different. 

Speaker 3:                       30:21                  Yes, that's 

Speaker 2:                       30:22                  True. It's not a four. For example, the average household used to be like five and a half, six people within a home, and it was a very small home, like 1930s, 1940s in the shack on big quarter acre blocks. We're now building massive homes with an average of two and a half to three people in them. 

Speaker 3:                       30:39                  That's exactly right. 

Speaker 2:                       30:41                  There's a problem because 85% of homes and above are just being built to one demographic. Whereas the demographic's changing traditional investments, which is, I mean, we can sell traditional investments, and we do. Sometimes people are like, no, that's what we want. That's fine. However, if you have a look at what's happening, we need to alter our approach. Exactly. 

Speaker 3:                       31:05                  Yeah. 

Speaker 2:                       31:05                  I like that you are, 

Speaker 3:                       31:06                  Yeah. You've got to be flexible and there's no cookie cutter, Matt in the, you've got to be nimble. You've got to throw a wide net. And with that, as I was saying, we've got an advisor network that every prospective person gets a title plan. They could have 800,000 assets, they could have 8 million to invest. I mean, we come up with the optimal solution for all of them in the middle. So in terms of home care, personal care, clinical care, income tax, wealth risk, asset planning, settling fees, we are good at that. So our model, for example, so we know for example, with the retirement that seven in 10 of the over 60 fives end up going to residential aged care. And it's a horror story. It's got daily and me tested Feed Rad dap Rag D fees that apply to it, and it's really complex. I'll just say those acronyms so that those who are watching will know sort of what they are. But we modelled one just a week ago where they were wealthy people and they were looking to come into retirement living, and we cut their residential care fees per year by $195,000. 

Speaker 2:                       32:19                  Is that when you're bringing in deferred management fees and those kinds of 

Speaker 3:                       32:22                  Use? We use a hybrid model, a hybrid contract. But yes, we affected massive savings for these people. 

Speaker 2:                       32:30                  And can people work with you who are younger who aren't thinking about retirement yet? Is that something that you still do or is that Well, 

Speaker 3:                       32:38                  Yes, we're happy to talk to anybody, but things change. We were saying before about how the super legislation changes. I think it's been 183 changes to the CIS Act since I started in financial services. So yes, happy to. But it affects them a bit. But AFF affects their mums and dads and affects their grandparents and in that sort of circular journey, yes, we're happy to speak to anybody. 

Speaker 2:                       33:04                  I love the fact of what you are sharing that people get to keep more of what they've earned because that then gets handed down 

Speaker 3:                       33:11Transgenerational wealth, Matt. Yeah, really vital. 

Speaker 2:                       33:15                  Yeah. We'll talk about younger people. Some of the stats around the amount of first home buyers under the age of 30, since the year 2000 is dramatically different. It's changing. It's halved, so they're going to need more support from things like being able to use your super. I mean, we help people buy their own home using super. Now, there's different ways you can do it, but also by getting support from grandparents, parents. 

Speaker 3:                       33:40                  Oh, sure. Yeah. And you've got the bank of mom and dad, but also the estate planning side of it as well too. So 

Speaker 2:                       33:45                  There's also better ways to protect mom and dad by providing support these days, which we like too. 

Speaker 3:                       33:52                  It doesn't matter how you skin the cat, it's as long as you end up with a bald cat. Yeah, 

Speaker 2:                       33:56                  Exactly. It's skinned. I don't think I've ever seen an attractive bald cat. It's like some humans look good bald, but cats just don't. No, 

Speaker 3:                       34:06                  That's true. That's true. 

Speaker 2:                       34:08                  Before we finish up, yeah, I think what you're doing is great. In our business. We try and provide support for people and then access to, I say it to clients as an army of advisors. Unfortunately, we're in a world that there's a lot of information. It's easily or readily available, but it's hard to dissect for people. So having experts that can speak in layman's terms and some complex, but oh yes. 

Speaker 3:                       34:37                  Our job is to simplify and say, well, which means that, and then you apply to 

Speaker 2:                       34:42                  The solution. Yeah. Is there anything that you, I mean, I've really enjoyed this discussion. 

Speaker 3:                       34:46                  Me. No, this has been good. Yes, so thanks for the opportunity, Matt, and good luck, everybody. Yep. 

Speaker 2:                       34:51                  No, thank you very much for being on board and for everyone listening, I hope you enjoyed that discussion. We'll look forward to hearing your feedback in the socials. Thank you. Thanks mate. Good on you. Brilliant. Thanks. Great. 

Speaker 1:                       35:07                  Thanks for listening to The Property Now podcast with Matt elo. We hope you learned something valuable and enjoyed the show. Should you wish to reach out to us, you can do so by calling 1 302 8 9 3 2 4. Or you welcome to email matt@hellobayfairproperty.com au and he'll be more than happy to help. However he can. Have a great day.